Ep. 137: How to Visit Hawaii With Aloha: A Conversation With Kamaka Pili, Native Hawaiian Cultural Practitioner

How to Visit Hawaii With Aloha

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[00:00:05] Bryan Murphy: Coming up on Hawaii’s best. Aloha is, it’s more of a transaction between two people, a person and a thing. It’s this relationship that you have with one another. It’s not just the essence of what makes Hawaii and who we are, but it’s the relationships and the connections that you have with one another, and of course what you leave behind.

[00:00:28] Bryan Murphy: Today we’re joined with Kamaka Peele. A native Hawaiian culture practitioner and storyteller who shares how you can truly connect with Hawaii, not just as a visitor, but as a steward of the land and culture. In this episode, you’ll discover the deeper meaning of aloha, the balance between culture preservation, and modern development in ways you can help.

[00:00:50] Bryan Murphy: To preserve Hawaii’s culture. Aloha and welcome to Hawaii’s Best, the podcast that helps you discover the best of Hawaii. Here you’ll get travel tips, the latest news and everything you need to plan an unforgettable trip to Hawaii Loha Kakoa. My name is Brian Murphy, your guide to the best of Hawaii. And in today’s episode, you’ll discover the deeper meaning of aloha and why it’s more than just a greeting.

[00:01:18] Bryan Murphy: You also discover ways you can help preserve Hawaii’s culture and what you as a visitor can do to travel with respect and make a positive impact in Hawaii. Welcome to episode 1 37 of Hawaii’s Best, and on the show we love hearing from local voices to help visitors travel with aloha. And today I’m just thrilled to introduce you to Kamaka Pi, a native Hawaiian culture practitioner, storyteller, and advocate for preserving Hawaii’s traditions.

[00:01:46] Bryan Murphy: In the modern world, Kaka has dedicated his life to educating others about Hawaii’s history and values, making him the perfect guide for our conversation today. You can find [email protected] where you can learn more about him, like being a weatherman news reporter, dancing hula. This guy really does it all, so be sure to check him out.

[00:02:07] Bryan Murphy: By the end of today’s episode, you’ll learn if you’re unintentionally making these common mistakes as a visitor to Hawaii, and more importantly, you’ll learn how to have a more meaningful and respectful trip to the Hawaiian Islands by helping preserve Hawaii’s culture. As I was editing this episode, it just made sense to do a two parts, because this first part we talk a lot about Hawaii’s culture, the meaning of aloha.

[00:02:36] Bryan Murphy: And how visitors can travel with Aloha and what it means to engage with Hawaii’s culture as a non-native. Hawaiian. Part Two is gonna be released a week from today, and we’re gonna talk about the history of Waikiki. We’re gonna tap into Kamaka’s storytelling ability, and this part of our conversation was.

[00:02:57] Bryan Murphy: Really eyeopening for me. Just learning more about the history of Waikiki and how it has grown into the tourist capital that it is today. You’re not gonna wanna miss that part of the conversation, so be sure to hit Follow on Apple Podcast or Spotify, wherever you’re listening to. Be sure to get that episode when it releases next week.

[00:03:18] Bryan Murphy: Alright, so let’s go ahead and let’s talk story with Kamaka Peel.

[00:03:30] Bryan Murphy: Within your bio, you mention about. You know, share, Aloha with the world. I’m thinking, Aloha, that phrase will kind of frame the rest of our conversation, but that motto, you know, share, Aloha with the world. What does it mean for you? Aloha, and how do you share that with what you do in your work? Well, first of all, thank you for having me.

[00:03:51] Kamaka Pili: I really appreciate the time to be able to share this. That’s actually a really hard question in terms of what is Aloha. My answer to that has always been, it’s hard to put into English the actual translation. I mean, it’s easy. You can go into the Hawaiian dictionary and you open it up, and of course we all know love.

[00:04:10] Kamaka Pili: I. Hello, goodbye and a very surface level. But I think that’s one of the beauties about Hawaiian culture and Hawaiian knowledge is you dive deeper into the, what we call K, or like the hidden meanings behind words. Mm-hmm. But for me, aloha is it’s more of a transaction. Between two people, a person and a thing.

[00:04:30] Kamaka Pili: It’s this relationship that you have with one another. One auntie that I interviewed recently, her explanation was, whatever you do, you do it with the most genuineness that you can provide. I think that’s the beauty is, is what is love and whatever that is to you. Try to dig a few layers deeper. And, and what is care and what is a loving relationship, whatever that is, surface level, it’s just taking the extra effort and the time to really dig into the deeper layers and, and what it truly means At the root.

[00:05:01] Kamaka Pili: And for me, aloha is it’s not just the essence of what makes Hawaii. Who we are. But it’s, it’s the relationships and the connections that you have with one another. And of course what you leave behind, you know, and the influence that you leave. And you know, I say from a person to thing, because I can go into the forest and dance chant, talk to a tree.

[00:05:22] Kamaka Pili: Some people may think that’s a little cuckoo, but if you. Dive deeper. You know, it’s more of the elements, the space, the connection you have with your aina, with your land. I mean, I can continue on, but that’s kind of the essence of aloha. Yeah, it’s, it’s kind of like around this realm and you’re always trying to achieve how to be better, knowing that you never can achieve it.

[00:05:42] Kamaka Pili: It’s just always a goal that you’re always striving for. And I think. By thinking of it like that is you’re always gonna be giving that effort because you’re always trying. So sharing Aloha with the World. How that came about was because when I was doing my stories, it really, I. Was a result of me coming across other stories from, especially visitors, that they share stories with me about Hawaii, which is inaccurate, or it’s not the most truthful, or they got it from advertisement and marketing and that as a native Hawaiian, knowing that, yeah, we live off of tourism and I think COVID and the pandemic really brought that to our attention of how reliant we are on tourism.

[00:06:21] Kamaka Pili: But with that being said. As much as tourists come here and enjoy this as their vacation and their trip native wines and people who call Hawaii home, your vacation day is our work day and a day for us to try to survive and pay the bills and go to check by, check and you know, so when you come here, I.

[00:06:39] Kamaka Pili: It’s not just a destination when you’re coming to Hawaii, it’s unlike any other place in the world. You know, there is a essence of those deeper layers and understandings. If it’s not Waikiki, if it’s not Oahu, if it’s not our culture. So by me sharing, Aloha with the world is hopefully trying to capture if you’re gonna take home stories of Hawaii visitors and tourists.

[00:07:01] Kamaka Pili: Take it from our us as storytellers. We’re the storytellers of our home, not the commercials. Because a lot of the times, if not all the times, those who sell Hawaii are not from Hawaii. Which by the way, I just don’t, I don’t like the term sell Hawaii, but you hear that a lot because it, it just makes us seem like.

[00:07:18] Kamaka Pili: As us as Hawaiians are, what are we just commodities to your vacation and experience. No, you’re coming to our home. We are the host of this home, so allow us to create the best experience for you, and I think that’s our responsibility as Hawaiians. ’cause I think it is easy to grumble about tourism and the lack of aloha here and there.

[00:07:40] Kamaka Pili: But if we put it on ourselves to have that responsibility to be the host and to make our home as we want it to be, that falls on our shoulders. So that’s how I look at it. So sharing Aloha with the world is kind of a model for myself to push myself to be the best I can. And don’t grumble so easy. You know, take all of that energy that you can use to grumble about all these different things.

[00:08:02] Kamaka Pili: But what is your Aloha response? There is a man who had since passed. His name is, and he was a peacemaker in my mind, and he left this impression in my spirit of, what is your aloha response? It’s easy to this response so quick, but it’s hard to think of, okay. In the, in the mindset of what aloha means, how then would you respond to an incident or to this situation or to this problem?

[00:08:25] Kamaka Pili: So sharing aloha with the world is kind of like a, a push for me to do that. For me growing up in Southern California, hearing and learning about aloha, and maybe some of those who are listening right now have thought of it as a, a warm, fuzzy term. Something that is just, we go to Hawaii and we experience aloha and it’s this kind of soft word.

[00:08:49] Bryan Murphy: In conversations, I’ve have learned that it’s so much deeper. Just like everything that you’ve mentioned. My question to you is how have you seen and do you see Aloha being taken advantage of and what, what does that look like? Off the top of my head. I think one phrase that I think we tend to think of a lot when we come into a situation like that is, don’t take my aloha for weakness.

[00:09:16] Kamaka Pili: And I think history shares that Aloha was taking advantage of in the past. Because one thing to Hawaiians is we’re all about sharing. And that is what made us who we are. I mean, for example, in Old Hawaii, we have this structure of how all the islands are breaking down. It’s called the ahu Pua system, where every island is broken into a district, and then a smaller district and smaller districts within that.

[00:09:42] Kamaka Pili: But I. What the districts are meant for is they’re, they run from the top of the mountain, down to the ocean, out into the ocean. I was told from one K about two miles, and then they have these boundaries. So the islands weren’t split up horizontally. They were split up, down from top to bottom, and that gave the opportunity for whatever family or settlement that remained and resided within each of those districts that.

[00:10:06] Kamaka Pili: They had all the different components and elements of life to be able to survive. It was, if it’s not from the fish and marine life and the families who live down on the shore bartering and sharing their resources with the families who live up on the mountain and in exchange, and they would give them bananas or kalo or, or sweet potato or whatever it may be.

[00:10:24] Kamaka Pili: So life in ancient Hawaii was all about sharing. And as time went on, and of course we had. How are people who, who started to arrive and begin to become more settled here and of course, Waikiki becoming such a tourism mecca and bringing people from around the world. That same aloha, which remains within the Hawaiians, started to be looked as an opportunity to take advantage of.

[00:10:49] Kamaka Pili: And I would say that’s probably one reason why Waikiki is today, how it is compared to where it was in 1900, you know, at the top of that century. When we talk about aloha, I think that’s one of the biggest things is where is that line of, of sharing too much and, and not sharing too much. Hmm. I was just speaking with one of my uncles who brought it back to my attention because I shared a video on social media about this rock formation that is in our Hawaiian stories.

[00:11:19] Kamaka Pili: Peles Canoe and Pele is the, the deity of the volcano. And there’s stories that she created the islands. Well, I shared that and I was. Just remind you, be careful what you share and be careful giving away the locations and all these things because people with bad intentions are gonna come and mess it all up.

[00:11:36] Kamaka Pili: And even if it’s a rock formation, I mean burial caves and all these things, there’s stories of people going and taking bones and taking all the things that were in there and, and then where’s the aloha in that? I mean, because part of it is you share. To perpetuate these stories before. Mm-hmm. We had a written language.

[00:11:53] Kamaka Pili: The written language in Hawaii came when the missionaries arrived, following 18, 20. Before that, all the stories that continue to this day, and up until that point, they were all memorized and they’re all, it’s all all oral traditions. So between chance and dances and, and all these things, you had to share them.

[00:12:11] Kamaka Pili: And if you didn’t share them, they’re gonna die. So you come into today. You don’t wanna share everything because not everybody has a good intention. But for me it’s like at the same time, I mean, how are we gonna educate our visitors, especially our visitors, but our own people as well. Mm-hmm. But how are we gonna educate our visitors with what we want them to know if we can’t share it with them?

[00:12:31] Kamaka Pili: And I a hundred percent agree that there is. A thing of sharing too much, and I agree that there is also sharing too little. Where is that balance in between? I don’t know. I don’t think I found that yet. I don’t know if there is a line or if that’s also something that you’re always striving to try to find, but there has to be a balance.

[00:12:51] Kamaka Pili: And I think before pandemic, and I don’t know about the pandemic, I I, I think the pandemic just brought more. Pride to people individually, and we just, that doesn’t always lead to positive things, but before and after. I think the goal with Hawaii and Hawaiians is where is that line of sharing too much?

[00:13:10] Kamaka Pili: We have a space, Hawaii, we are here. There’s a lot of people who. Don’t agree with being American or that Hawaii is a state, you know, and there’s, there’s so many different levels of understanding of Hawaii and Hawaiian culture. That is also a challenge within itself is how can I have these neutral ballads conversations, hopefully with everybody and whatever level they are at, but bring it back together and just share that, you know, it’s about perpetuating our culture.

[00:13:37] Kamaka Pili: One story I always shared, and we have a practice called Lua, and that’s our martial arts, and I was always told that the teacher teaching his student. Never shared everything to his student because there was the fear that if you taught all your knowledge and all your strikes and your blows to your student and your student eventually turns on you, you have no defense against yourself.

[00:13:57] Kamaka Pili: So you always keep knowledge to yourself because you always have that one a on your student in just in that case. So in that kind of a mindset that sharing too much is very dangerous. So, mm-hmm. Aloha. That’s the biggest thing is where is that line of, of sharing too much. Aloha. If you had to narrow it down, like what would be one thing you would wish people to understand about Hawaii, especially before visiting?

[00:14:21] Kamaka Pili: That we are a thriving people. Mm-hmm. I, I think it’s easy to mix Hawaii as just a state. You’re taking over by America. You’re America now. That could be it. But let’s go back to the story of how. Why? So there’s so much history in Hawaii that people don’t like to talk about and it’s sensitive, and people may take offense or they just don’t want to hear it because there are hard issues to that.

[00:14:46] Kamaka Pili: And a lot of those go to Howley people. And I mean, that’s just because that’s how stories turned out. And. That’s when we’re going again today, that there’s people in different stances of where they stand, but to me is before you come down to Hawaii, know that we are a thriving people with a thriving culture, with a thriving language.

[00:15:03] Kamaka Pili: Just recently, there was a lady who said, Hawaiian language is a dead language. Completely false. Hawaiian language is a thriving language, and when you’re coming here. Know that it’s not just a destination. There’s so much history and culture and heritage that lie underneath the cement that is now Waikiki or wherever, but we’re not just a destination.

[00:15:26] Kamaka Pili: I think that’s the biggest thing I would tell people. I. On my walk today, Hawaii 78 came on. I thought about our conversation, you know, people were listening by, brother is Israel, kale, and it made me think of our conversation and some of the lyrics. Just for context, I kind of wanted to to read and frame up for a question for you, but I’ve heard this song many times and I’ve always wanted to get a Hawaiian’s perspective on this song.

[00:15:54] Bryan Murphy: If just for a day our king and queen would visit all these islands and saw everything, how would they feel about the changes of our land? Could you just imagine if they were around and saw highways on sacred grounds, how would they feel about this modern city life? I guess one, how does this song resonate with you?

[00:16:16] Bryan Murphy: And two, where do you see that balance of modern. Call it advancement versus sacred preservation. Well, that’s one of the coolest songs to me ever. I mean, I, I mean the lyrics to that song speak and, and ring true today just as much as it did back in 1978, if not louder. Because, I mean, that’s exactly right.

[00:16:40] Kamaka Pili: You look out and you, you see Waikiki is just a perfect example because I just seen some pictures recently. With nothing taller than a coconut tree in Waikiki. And, and you think about just all these different things, these sacred sites, we call it ANA or these locations with significance and, and history to them.

[00:17:01] Kamaka Pili: A lot of times Hawaiian culture doesn’t necessarily have a, what you call that an ROIA return of investment. Sure. And I know that because I was trying to do arts and culture and trying to integrate myself and, and I never could really do anything or progress because I didn’t have the corporate.

[00:17:19] Kamaka Pili: Business mindset. There’s no ROI. I didn’t even know what that was, but to me it’s, there’s so much history that is so easy to move past because the world is so fast. We wanna make money, we wanna do this. And it baffles me because. As a hula dancer in Waikiki, Hawaiian culture is always used as the fluff.

[00:17:37] Kamaka Pili: Then that’s what it always seems like, and that’s the extent Hawaiian dancer, oh, let’s put the Hawaiian dancers over there. Let’s put the Hawaiian musicians. Let’s have the cultural influence as just the sugar on top. But what about us being the actual component? Like let’s, why are we being treated as just the fluff?

[00:17:54] Kamaka Pili: And to me, I think that’s the biggest thing is. I would like people to understand that Hawaiian culture is a live, thriving thing. So you know the one thing about Hawaiian culture and of course, that the influence, it leaves on the land. Ancient Hawaiians were super, super smart. I mean, there are so many stories of how with technology that we have today, we cannot replicate and a hundred percent duplicate what had happened a hundred, 200 years ago.

[00:18:22] Kamaka Pili: That’s wild. I was just talking with Manoa Thompson and the Hoku. This year they’re celebrating their 50th anniversary, and I remember he was telling us about the, he was telling me about the sale, and I guess originally they came across stories of the, the sale itself was woven lalla. Loha is a, Lao is leaf and challah is the tree.

[00:18:42] Kamaka Pili: So Loha is the leaf of the hala tree. And he was like, I don’t understand how that would work, because Hala, when it gets wet, it starts to deteriorate and break apart. And if you’re sailing, you’re in the middle of water. So how could you make a sail out of Loha? And be successful. As much as they try to do that today, they couldn’t replicate that wild.

[00:19:01] Kamaka Pili: And it’s stories like that, like that’s just fascinating. Yeah. So when we’re thinking about integrating knowledge into today, and people wanna say that is, there’s no, you know, that, that’s, that’s old, that’s passed. I don’t agree with that at all. I mean, we should be giving more attention to our history and what our Kauna did, because their stories prove that they’re so, they were so smart and successful in what they did.

[00:19:25] Kamaka Pili: So can we take that today? You know, so do we need to fix something that’s not broken? Do we need to reinvent the wheel when the wheel’s been already invented? I don’t know. I’m not a scientist. I’m not any of those, but I think like as a storyteller, I see the value in our stories. I see the value and what it meant to them.

[00:19:43] Kamaka Pili: Then my challenge as a storyteller and what I like to try to do is how can I then take that and find how it’s relevant today? I don’t know the answer to that, but I think. Just the videos that I’ve been doing, the stories that I’ve been doing. Mm-hmm. Bringing that knowledge out has to be step one. I mean, I’ve always felt no matter what the issue is, no matter how big or small education and talking story and becoming aware and, and building our knowledge has to be step one.

[00:20:09] Kamaka Pili: I always, I’m a true believer there is ways how we can take ancient knowledge and integrate it today, but we need. People to be able to take the time and figure that out. As we wrap up this episode, I want to just take a moment and reflect on a few key insights that we covered. Some things that kind of struck me maybe for you as well, but first we talked about the deeper meaning of Aloha, and I know we’ve talked about that on the podcast before with others, but I don’t think that topic can be.

[00:20:39] Bryan Murphy: Talked about enough, it’s, it’s a concept that goes just beyond a simple greeting, and it’s about building genuine relationships. Even if you’re in Hawaii for a week, it’s about showing care and creating memorable connections, not just with people, but also with the land itself. We also explored how tourism in Hawaii has unintentionally, maybe intentionally harmed the culture of Hawaii and how.

[00:21:02] Bryan Murphy: We as visitors can avoid this by being more mindful and respectful. HU is not just a destination, it’s a home. And the stories you take with you should come from its people, not just advertisements and commercials. And finally, we discuss the importance of balance, how much to share with visitors while still preserving the sacredness of whole east culture and traditions.

[00:21:24] Bryan Murphy: And from what I’ve learned, it’s a tough line to navigate, but one thing is clear. Being an informed and respectful traveler and learning from people like Kamaka is a step in the right direction for sure. So if this episode gave you a deeper appreciation for Hawaii and its culture, I’d love for you to hit follow on Apple or Spotify so you don’t miss part two of my conversation with Kamaka next week.

[00:21:48] Bryan Murphy: And if you know someone planning a trip to Hawaii, be sure to share this episode with them. It’s a great way to help more people travel with aloha. Mahalo for joining me today and being a part of this journey to learn and grow together. And until next time, as always, live with Aloha Mahalo for listening to this episode of Hawaii’s.

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