HB 036: How Cara Lost Her Color Author, Ali Miller, on Ocean Conservation

Bryan Murphy 0:00

saving our oceans and our reefs feels like a huge undertaking. And it is. But what if I told you that by considering and making some minor adjustments, we can all make a difference seriously. And to break it all down today we have Allie Miller, a marine naturalist graduate from the University of Hawaii, an author, and she breaks down some practical steps that we all can do at home. And while we're traveling, so it's a fun conversation. I hope you enjoy it. Let's go ahead and cue the intro.

Hawaii's Best 0:34

Welcome to Hawaii's Best travel podcast where we help you prepare for your next trip to Hawaii. Discover the experiences businesses and stories that make Hawaii the Aloha state. And now your host, Brian Murphy.

Bryan Murphy 0:49

Hello and welcome to Episode 36 of Hawaii's Best where we help prepare you for your next trip to Hawaii. And hopefully that is sooner rather than later but we got to do it safely and Um, as you may know, the August 1 day and this This podcast is coming up on July 30. So we're hoping that on August 1, that Trans Pacific travel will be opened up to Hawaii, but it's not it got pushed back to September 1 as of right now. So I'm gonna keep you updated on that, like I mentioned on these past episodes, I don't really have any new news right now to report other than numbers keep going up. And also number of people being tested keeps going up. So we're watching that on Hawaii and also on the mainland. Obviously, there's a lot of numbers going up right now, a lot of data. It's hard to sort through it all. But that's not what you're tuning in today to talk about the latest in Coronavirus and the data and all that and analyzing it because here at Hawaii's Best, we're all about this bringing you some practical guides and tips to help get you the most out of your stay on the islands to stay up to date on future episodes into when travel is going to open up again. Be sure to hit the subscribe button and that'll just make sure That the next episode just pops right into your feed. And you don't have to come find it again. So appreciate that. I'm also so excited to talk about today's sponsor with you because over the last couple years I have accumulated I don't know how many travel bags, yes travel bags. I've pretty picky and in my travel bags and just how we travel individually and how we travel as a family. And I've always am looking for like super functional and durable and it's kind of a good to write. Well, the search, at least for me has ended. There's this company called nomadic, their attention to detail is amazing. I have their 30 l travel bag and what I love about it, it's like a great it's a great bag for four day hikes, as well as a quick weekend trip. I got this bag back earlier this year. And obviously with everything shut down, we haven't been able to try it out. So it was cool to be able to kind of get it out on the road and do some hikes with it. And even though we're not able to travel as much or as far right now, as we have in the past, I know one day we will be able to do all those things, but these bags are great for like road trips, and even just a local hike or even you know, just everyday use if you're going into the office or whatever your situation is. Now, the feature I love the most about this bag. It might be kind of silly to you, but it's the built in sunglass hardcase typically, I would just throw my sunglasses in like any compartment that I can find. But what I love about this bag is it has a built in sunglass hardcase where I can just you know keep my Maui gems in there looking fresh and not having to like rebuy a pair every year so to learn more about this bag just simply go to Hawaii's Best travel comm slash nomadic that's n o ma t ic Hawaii's Best travel.com slash nomadic. Well, like I mentioned today we are talking all about what we can do tangibly in helping protect the ocean and helping them Protect the reefs, because those things are super important. It's not just, you know a good thing to do. It's a super important thing to do when it comes to our environment. And when it comes to just leaving this place better than we found it. And today to talk about some of these tips is Holly Miller. Allie Miller studied marine biology and sustainable science management at the University of Hawaii. And she's also an author. She's a children's author, she, she's written this crazy cool book. And this is how we kind of came in contact because my wife and I, we have three girls and who are elementary age. And this book is such a cool, colorful, amazing book. It's a cool book about what we can do to help sustain our reefs in the ocean. So with that, let's go ahead and talk story with Allie Miller.

Allie, thank you so much for coming on Hawaii's Best today. How are you doing?

Ali Miller 4:56

I'm doing good. Thank you so much for having me.

Bryan Murphy 4:59

Absolutely. This is gonna be fun. And before we jump into today's conversation, I want to hear more about you and what's corrente life like for you right now?

Ali Miller 5:07

Well, I'm happy to be doing quarantine here on Maui. It's, it's been different. Um, you know, things have kind of opened up a little bit here. We do have some restaurants and stores reopening. But there's still kind of a lot of stuff that's been closed or staying closed. And we're kind of just waiting to see what happens with travel when some of the resorts are gonna open back up and stuff like that.

Bryan Murphy 5:31

No, for you being on Maui. When do you move? And what's that story?

Ali Miller 5:36

Yeah, so it's quite the story. I first came to visit Maui in 2015. I came here on vacation and, you know, snuggled in the ocean for the first time and saw sea turtles and just absolutely fell in love. I've always loved the ocean and sea creatures, but I grew up in Reno. There's not much ocean around. Also, a lot of people don't know this. I have a pacemaker. I'm not able to dive in the ocean. And I never really thought that, you know, career in marine science was was in the cards for me. But I can snorkel So yeah, I came here I fell in love. That was May of 2015. I went back to Brito figured out what I needed to do to enroll in school here to come here and study marine biology. And I moved here three months later, in August, so I was pretty set on it. Yeah. So what I didn't know at the time 2015 was, you know, really hot summer and we were experiencing some of the worst coral bleaching, not only here in Hawaii, but around the world that year. So I moved here, excited to study marine biology and kind of dive into this. And then what I found was, you know, a bunch of reefs that were dying because of the the heat stress. So that was something I was learning about in school, and kind of seeing as it was happening as we were out there. Doing things survey's for class. It really stuck with me. Yeah, I didn't know about coral bleaching or what was really going on before I moved here. And I started studying it. So that's kind of where the book came from. I wanted to teach kids about this issue so they can grow up, you know, kind of having a different perspective on everything.

Bryan Murphy 7:20

Now, we have a lot to talk about this. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 7:21

Try to try to sum

Bryan Murphy 7:24

it up, but right, so within three short months, you're like, Okay, I'm sold. Moving to Maui, and I'm jumping into marine biology. Was that even on your radar prior to May of 2015?

Ali Miller 7:36

No, I mean, I just growing up in Reno like you just I didn't really think about I'm coming here really just opened a new world of possibilities for me, and I'm one of those people like when I set my mind to something like I'm gonna go for it. Yeah, I just, I think a lot of people that move out here say this, but you know, you just kind of felt the kind of felt like I was, you know, supposed to be here. Something was gone. Nice to the island. And I'm really glad that I made that move. But it was absolutely terrifying. And everyone back home thought I was crazy. You know, I just came in announced, like, Hey, I'm leaving and moving to Hawaii and everyone was just kind of like what? Okay, but I really wanted to study marine biology. I just never saw that coming until I got here. The University of Hawaii, actually, on all the campuses, they have a program called the marine option program. And it's basically a way for undergraduates to just kind of jump right into marine science classes

Bryan Murphy 8:32

talking about your passion for marine marine biology. Was it sparked on that visit to Maui? Is that kind of where you can like we're the epicenter of this passion started or

Ali Miller 8:43

Yeah, I think it was the fire, but you know, I mean, I always love that stuff. But coming out here and seeing it and really experiencing it was enough to make me decide to change my whole life. So yeah, I would say that was it.

Bryan Murphy 8:59

You mentioned in 20. 15 the summer of 2015 reefs in Hawaii and also around the world. were experiencing some incredible stress and deterioration What? maybe explain what was going on in that summer. And what have you seen since in these five years? Has it been improving or not improving? Well, maybe just bring up the speed what was going on in 2015? And then what's happening today?

Ali Miller 9:21

Yeah, so in in 2015 2016, we had some of the hottest summers on record. So corals just kind of briefly are really picky about the temperature of their environment and they are very sensitive to heat. So our ocean temperatures are here in Hawaii, typically ranging between low 70s and high 70s. And that summer, ocean temperatures got up to like 8485 degrees. So it was an extreme change. And so the corals they have a little algae, symbiotic algae in their tissues, that produces their food and really helps them survive. When the corals get stressed out, they will expel that algae. And when that happens, they're they're losing their food source and they also become more susceptible to disease. And you'll see them turn white and that's that's where the term coral bleaching comes from. So the coral animals, the the polyps themselves are transparent. Essentially, it's the the algae called zambelli that lives in their tissues that gives them their different colors. So when they release that algae, you can pretty much just see right through to their, their white mineral skeleton. And that's what that's what you're seeing when all the corals appear to be turning white.

Bryan Murphy 10:37

So we're talking about bleaching. Is it basically the coral, is it starving? Is that basically a parallel?

Ali Miller 10:43

Yes. So they they are stressed out and they're not getting you know the energy that they need. So when that happens, they become more susceptible to disease and if the conditions don't improve if things don't cool down, they can actually die off So you'll see them bleach and then you'll see, you know, the same reef A month later that's pretty much completely overgrown with this brown, green kind of fuzzy algae. And that's what happens when the reef dies and just kind of gets overgrown with this algae. So that's what we would see a lot of like, in class, when we did surveys, we'd go out to a reef, you know, survey the area, and then go back to the same reef, you know, a month or two later and you would see some extreme changes and a lot of what we call partial mortality when you'll see one big coral head and part of it is alive and part of it is is dead overgrown with algae. So since 2015, we have seen some recovery. Luckily, the last few years, our summers haven't been as hot in the water temperatures haven't been as hot. So we haven't seen that kind of bleaching. But these types of events are becoming more common. We're starting to see these these mass bleaching events occur, you know, maybe every few years Are every five years so as you know, the oceans get warmer, it's going to be a recurring thing, which is why we need to pay attention to it now,

Bryan Murphy 12:09

in addition to hotter summers, what are some other factors that go into creating this problem?

Ali Miller 12:14

That's a great question. There's actually a lot of things that are bad for corals that are or that could be bad for corals. So some other things that can cause bleaching. I one thing that I think a lot of people are familiar with are chemicals in sunscreens, that's been known to cause damage in corals and coral bleaching. sedimentation is also really bad for reef so that's, you know, any kind of coastal construction that can damage reefs. And then yeah, I mean, to be honest, I think heat is probably the biggest stressor right now, because we're seeing, you know, these temperatures increasing on a regular basis. So I would say that's probably the biggest threat but there's, there's quite a few facts to coral out there.

Bryan Murphy 12:56

What are some of the kind of weapons if you will, that we Have an arsenal to be able to combat because warming that's a huge like big 30,000 foot hard to wrap your mind around, right? Yeah, but what can we do tangibly to help with this,

Ali Miller 13:12

there's a lot of little things people can do and I understand when you're looking at a problem that large it's kind of hard to you know, zoom in on on one thing that you can fix or change. So for you know, like for visitors, when they when they travel here you just want to be mindful when you're on the reef and you know, not touch anything while you're out there. You don't want to stand on the coral, there's keep in mind that you know, it is alive I think, you know, maybe a lot of people come out here and they don't really know you know what it is or how important it is. sunscreen. So when you're out there, you know, in the sun wearing hats, long sleeve, swim shorts, those rash guards or board shorts, just other protective gear to keep the sun off of you instead of sunscreens. There's been a lot of research on chemical based sunscreens, particularly the The chemical oxy ban zone and showing that that's really harmful to coral and their larvae. So there's been kind of this huge shift to mineral based sunscreens that contain zinc or titanium instead of those chemical sunscreen. So that's something that people can do.

Bryan Murphy 14:17

Okay, so talking about sunscreen, you see a lot of companies, it's kind of a buzzword right now, you know, reef safe, you see a lot of that on people's products. And although it does have ingredients in it that are safer to the reef specifically, still, there are plenty of tests that we haven't done yet. On those specific reef safe sunscreens, what would you recommend as far as those types of products or maybe even alternatives to sunscreen?

Ali Miller 14:44

Yeah, absolutely. That's a great question. So with the mineral based sunscreen, you're absolutely right. We don't have much testing to show their effects on MRI. So we've kind of switched to these mineral based sunscreens as an alternative But usually what I recommend is clothing, hats, rash guards the long sleeve swim shorts board shorts. If you're on the beach or you're out there in the ocean it's you know a means of some protection but also protection when you're in the water. And using clothing as protection just keeps you from using those sunscreens it keeps less of them from getting in the water. So if you are going to use a sunscreen for your face or something like that, I definitely recommend a mineral based sunscreen something with zinc or titanium. And you do want to be mindful if you're looking to purchase on screen you'll see some of the major brands will now have received stickers on the on the bottle, and a lot of those still contain chemicals. They may be chemicals that haven't been tested as much like oxybenzone but they have a similar chemical structure and they could actually be just as harmful. We just don't have enough research. So clothing first as your first line of defense, then mineral based sunscreen. You know, check the ingredients and make sure it's it's zinc or titanium based.

Bryan Murphy 16:04

You talk about banned chemicals and at the time of recording, it's already which is crazy halfway through 2020 come January of 2021. Governor, Ige governor of Hawaii, signed into law happening January 2021, that there's gonna be a few chemicals that are banned in the State of Hawaii. What chemicals are going to be banned come January of 2021.

Ali Miller 16:28

Its products containing oxybenzone and the other one is Tina ziet. So those are the two that have been studied. So come 2021 people won't be able to purchase products containing those chemicals in the sea of white right

Bryan Murphy 16:43

now switching a little bit back at home. What are some things locally and even people on Island in whatever Island they're living on? Or maybe even people on the mainland around the world? What are some things locally that we can be aware of to be to maybe even expand our understanding of how to take care tear of the environment in tangible ways.

Ali Miller 17:03

Yeah. So there's a lot of little things that that people can do that will help benefit the ocean. And some of them may be things that you wouldn't really think about. I think overall, the bigger picture is, is reducing carbon emissions, because that's what's contributing to these warming temperatures in the first place. So kind of focusing on that, as far as what people can do at home. just picking up trash in your area keeps things from getting into waterways in the ocean in the first place. Believe it or not, I know a lot of people don't like to hear this. But reducing the amount of meat in your diet, even if it's just a little bit can really help agriculture is a big contributor to climate change and co2 emissions. So just reducing the amount of meat in your diet can have huge impacts, planting native trees in your area. planting trees is great. You just want to make sure that you're not planting something invasive. So you want to make sure if you're going to plant trees or or anything, that it's something that would naturally grow in your area. Sometimes organic products can be hard to find or can be really expensive. But I am a huge fan of buying organic produce. Just because organic farming practices protects the integrity of soils, it keeps pesticides from getting into the land and then therefore washing out into the ocean. So actually, you know, supporting organic farmers can actually do a lot to help. So it's just little things and, you know, really thinking about products before you buy them to

Bryan Murphy 18:32

human thinking about these last four months or how we've been in this endemic, we've had to ask ourselves the question of how are my actions going to affect somebody else? And as kind of elementary as that sounds? I think we've seen it in a tangible way. We've all been affected by it. We've all been impacted by how are my actions going to impact the population. This is even on a very similar scale. And what we buy What we're saying yes to what we're saying no to, I think it impacts and I think we've seen that in such a real way, these last few months and how actions can impact the entire world?

Unknown Speaker 19:11

Absolutely. Yeah.

Bryan Murphy 19:14

So Ali, taking all this into consideration, and as we talk more about your passion, writing the book, how did how did that all come about? Have you always wanted to write a book or?

Ali Miller 19:25

Yeah, I always wanted to write a book, but I didn't know it was gonna be a children's book about coral. That was not something I saw coming. So obviously, you know, I was really affected by everything that was going on. And when I was looking for children's books about this subject, I couldn't find anything you'll notice coral is usually the scenery in most ocean books. It's not the main character. You know, so this is something that was kind of different. So at the time, I was juggling two jobs in school. This is the most free time I've had in years, right. Yeah. Yeah, I was like, I don't even know what to do if I saw

Bryan Murphy 20:02

over those jobs you were doing.

Ali Miller 20:04

So at the time, I was working at the Maui ocean center, and then serving a couple nights a week, because that's what you got to do out here, you know? Yeah. And then I was, you know, attending school. Yeah.

Bryan Murphy 20:16

school to

Ali Miller 20:17

three classes at a time. Yeah. So I've been really busy the whole time. I've been out here. I haven't just been chilling on the beach in Hawaii. I've been working. Yeah. So I mean, at the time, I was already very busy. But I just, you know, again, I just found something I want to do. So I had to go for it. And so I knew nothing about writing a book, but I knew kind of the concept and I had something in mind. And I spent about six months actually writing it and just kind of messing with it. It does have kind of rhyming words. It has a bit of a rhyme scheme. So it was already ambitious to write a kid's book about coral bleaching, and then I decided I wanted it to rhyme also. So is a lot to take on. Yeah, so I wrote it. Then I wanted to self publish because I know publishing can take a long time. And climate change is happening now. So I just wanted to get it out as soon as possible. That was the main reason I wanted to go for self publishing. But I had no idea what I was doing. So I hired a wonderful team of freelancers. I had a an all female team for the illustrations, publishing assistance, and then I had a PR manager. I did a small book tour in January before all this happened. I was actually in California. I was in Southern California and the Bay Area in Reno. Yeah. Cool. So it is available. Kind of everywhere online on Amazon, Barnes noble, target Walmart kind of everywhere. That's awesome. Well, first of all way

Bryan Murphy 21:45

to go. I mean, that's a huge, like, check. That's an awesome accomplishment. So way to go q. So give us an overview into Kara's world how Kara lost her color. What's it about? Give us a snapshot into Her world and her friends.

Ali Miller 22:01

Yes. So Kara is a lovely pink coral polyp. And she has a little friend named Zoe that lives in her body. That's the little algae that lives in their tissues. And they have a great time out there in the ocean. And so humans come along and the water temperature increases. And then Cara experiences the coral bleaching. So story is really about what's happening in the biology of corals as a bleaching event is taking place. And I don't want to ruin the ending, but it is a children's book. So it does have a happy ending. So yeah, the story is that you can't really talk to small children about renewable energy and what we can do. So that's really shown through the illustration. So you'll see on one page, kind of some of the things that humans are doing that aren't great for the planet or for the ocean. And then at the end, they change their ways, and it shows some of the good things that they're doing. So the book really does have a positive message and that's what I wanted for it. And, and that is that humans can we can be the heroes, we can make those changes. We can be the heroes in our own story, too. That's awesome. And you mentioned that you can grab that book pretty much anywhere you can buy a book, right? Yes. So, online, it is available through Ingram books, so if any schools or retailers are looking to purchase it to keep it in their store, it is available at a wholesale discount through Ingram books. And then it's available online through Amazon, Barnes and Noble is also on target and walmart.com. So it's out there on several websites, there is a Kindle version as well for for those who want to be more eco friendly and maybe not purchase a book, but still get to check it out. And then I do have now a quick coral one on one lesson, and a storytime video posted on YouTube and on my Instagram. So if you search the book title, you should be able to find that there too.

Bryan Murphy 23:59

Awesome. Way to go now? Yeah, absolutely. Obviously right now, like you mentioned, you're like I have never had this much time in my entire life.

Unknown Speaker 24:09

Seriously.

Bryan Murphy 24:11

I mean, that's a huge accomplishment in itself. And as you're mainly looking at, we're starting to slowly finding new normal and still getting on with their life and still accomplishing goals and still moving forward. Because I think that's how we're all wired at our core. Right? What about you? What does the future look like for you? What are you excited about?

Ali Miller 24:29

That is a great question. This has been a really weird time for everyone including me. So I have been kind of trying to figure out where I want to focus my energy and I really enjoyed making the storytime video and now I have this time and I am looking into doing more stuff online. I really want to look into creating more educational videos and maybe working with other people from different organizations to do interviews are kind of you Bring some of that other information across. So I really want to look into what else I can do in education, but maybe from a distance from a computer. I have a lot of people asking me what the next book is gonna be about. And I've definitely got a lot of ideas around my head, and I'm not sure yet. I'm not sure which direction I want to go. But

Bryan Murphy 25:19

do you think there's another book? It might be? It's not out of the question. Yeah, I will say that not anytime soon. Because it takes a while but it took about a year and a half to get this out. So but but it is a possibility. I will say that awesome. I think the way you're thinking about you know, approaching education, my wife is a full time teacher. This whole thing has like, obviously rocked the entire world, but specifically we're talking about education. Education has been so so much the same and it has quickly in three months, changed the way we look at education and how we teach and how we educate. You know, where moms and dads are buying courses online and selling Educating and going at their own pace. It's pretty cool. You know, being a dad of three girls, seeing them, doing some self educating and kind of working in their schoolwork throughout the day, virtually, I think there's a component of social that we can't replace through zoom calls. Right? But you're talking about doing more education space, and virtually, and this is just me speculating, but I think we're gonna see more of that even coming out of this, I think we're gonna see a new way and at least incorporating some of these these principles and these practices that we've put in place these last few months. So I think, what are you talking about doing more educationally online? I think that is that is huge. I could totally see that.

Ali Miller 26:44

Absolutely. It's, it's a kind of a way to be creative. And you know, instead of just me talking about a certain topic, I think, you know, education is very much collaborative, so I could, you know, reach out to people from different organizations and get them involved and Be able to present that in an awesome, fun way to kids. I think that would be great. So that's definitely what I will be focusing on.

Bryan Murphy 27:09

That's awesome. All right, Allie, this has been so much fun. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. One of the questions I love to ask everyone who comes on the show is in specifically you moving from the mainland five years ago? What are some things I would love for people to know? Or maybe some things that you've learned these last five years that you would love to be able to pass on to someone who's coming to the islands for the first time? Or maybe even year after year?

Ali Miller 27:33

Absolutely. Hawaii is a beautiful place in very rich in culture. I always encourage everyone to learn a little bit about the culture, you know, before they come and, you know, even trying to learn how to pronounce some words will help you getting around looking at street signs and stuff like that. Yeah, definitely just looking into the culture here in Hawaii. And then also, you know, knowing What you can do if you're out there in the ocean to help protect the reef so not standing on the coral, a lot of people don't know the the green sea turtles that you'll commonly see around the beaches here are a federally protected endangered species. So it's actually illegal to approach them within 10 feet. So you just want to be mindful of that and be respectful of the animals when you're when you're out there in the ocean. You know, that's that's their home too. So you want to observe, but not touch and

Bryan Murphy 28:27

what are some of your favorite places talking about Maui are things to do.

Ali Miller 28:31

So I love Honda. I love the east side of the island. I definitely don't get to go over there. Enough, but it's just gorgeous. I really love snorkeling when I can get out there. I have a little more time to do it now. And just seeing what's out there. I feel like every time I go I see something new. You know, I've seen manta rays and you know, just all kinds of fish and really cool stuff out there. And so I just like hanging out at the beach. You know, I love this place because there's different environments kind of everywhere. So you have the beach, you have the jungle, you can go up on Haleakala. And you have you know, this beautiful forest. So just having that variety even though I may be on an island, I feel like you know, I can experience all these different environments in the in the same place, which is really awesome.

Bryan Murphy 29:18

That is awesome. Well, Allie, thank you so much for your time and coming on today. We already talked about how people can find your book, but maybe just reiterate, how can people buy the book and find you connect with you?

Ali Miller 29:29

Yes, so you can buy the book online. I usually recommend Amazon just because it's often on sale through Amazon. There is a hardcover and a paperback copy, but also through through Barnes and Noble online. If you just search the book on Google, a few things should should pop up. If you'd like to follow my Instagram, it's Allie Miller author. I been getting better about posting stuff. I will post updates on the book and events and you know just kind of things going on as a As far as the environment or things going on in Hawaii, I've been trying to keep it updated as well. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Yeah, you got it. I love

Bryan Murphy 30:11

Well, I just want to thank Ollie again for a time and all the resources that we mentioned, the best way The easiest way to go ahead and get to all that stuff is go to Hawaii's Best travel comm slash Episode 36 and you'll be able to find all that stuff there you can, you can buy how Kara lost her color there. You can read more about Ali and also links out to her social accounts as well. My biggest key takeaway is I have a family history of skin cancer and so the thought of protecting yourself from long exposure from the Sun is super important. It's always been ingrained to me so I've always have used sunscreen sunblock, but obviously I haven't always used sunscreen that was chemical free. So we made that switch a few years ago and We've been using, you know, zinc based sunscreens on ourselves and on our girls as well. But like Ali mentioned, the best way to protect yourself from the Sun is with clothing. And I know like you're going to Hawaii and you want to work on that tan and that's all good too. And, you know, make sure you have that zinc based sunscreen, but you're not so much concerned about that. Get in a rash guard and hat, especially when you're snorkeling, like even if you're looking to get that tan. Like that's all cool. But if you plan on going snorkeling, you definitely want to invest in I would say, a long sleeve rash guard, because you'll just get hosted out there snorkeling. What also love to about this conversation was like, yeah, there's a lot of science based research backed into what Ali was talking about, but there's some tangible things that we can do. There's nothing more. I guess, like for me, that just kind of bums me out is when we talk about a big problem like oh, yeah, you know, the reefs are shrinking and they're bleaching and an It's not good. And we just talked about problems without any like tangible solutions. Like it drives me crazy. Maybe it does you as well. So what I really loved about coming out of this conversation was that there's some tangible ways in which we can take action. And there's simple ways that we can do and I think it just comes down to just being aware and just making those small adjustments, especially if you're planning on traveling to a place like Hawaii, Australia, somewhere like that, where the reefs are in need of protecting. I think that's just super important just to consider some of these things. So I hope you enjoy today. And if you brought value to you, you can go ahead and just leave a rating review. Let us know what you think. I'm also always looking for just content what you want to hear about you can reach us directly at contact at Hawaii's Best travel calm, and we respond to every email that we get. So thank you for that. Hang in there. I know we're going to travel again soon. Until next time, guys be well. Aloha.

Hawaii's Best 33:01

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